One of the most influential intellectuals of the 20th and 21st centuries in the field of Arabic and translation, Roger Allen has spent more than five decades studying Arabic literature, and has translated over 50 novels from Arabic to English. Yale scholar Jonas Elbousty recently spoke to Allen for TMR.
Jonas Elbousty
Roger Allen has produced numerous scholarly works and translations, among them The Arabic Novel: An Historical and Critical Introduction, which theorizes the Arabic novel. This work, among many others, has shaped the field of Arabic studies. In addition to this study, Allen published volumes on the history of Arabic literature. His contributions to the field are immeasurable — he has translated over 50 novels from Arabic into English, and he is currently working on more novels. Given Allen’s impressive accomplishments in the field of Arabic literature and translation and his teaching of scholars, and extensive legacy in Arabic literature , I sat down with him to discuss his work spanning over half a century.
Jonas Elbousty: I would like to start at the very beginning. When and why did you first decide to study Arabic? And how was your experience?
Roger Allen: Growing up with the British educational system post-World-War II, I was early assumed to be headed for a career in “Classics” (Latin and Greek — I started Latin at eight and Greek at thirteen!). I passed all the necessary exams, learned how to compose Latin and Greek verse, and was accept by Lincoln College, Oxford in 1961, to study Classics. It only required six months of essentially the same routine as before for me to decide that I wanted to change my focus. Much to the horror of my tutors, I was advised to continue with Classics, but also to “ask around” about other possibilities.
Among the scholars whom I went to see was A.F.L. Beeston (1911–1995), Professor of Arabic at Oxford. He pointed out to me that, while the northern shores of the Mediterranean contained a series of nations, each with their own language, the southern shores all shared a single language, indeed one that extended far to the east. Was there not something that might interest me in that enormous spread? I started Arabic at Oxford in April 1962 and went for summer study in Lebanon in 1963. That same year, Oxford University appointed Dr. Mustafa Badawi (1925–2012) as its first Lecturer in Modern Arabic Literature. In 1964 I took his course on Arabic poetry, signed up for the special BA exam in modern Arabic, and got my BA in 1965. I applied for a graduate fellowship from the British government, and, to my astonishment, I was awarded one. That was, as it were, “the end of the beginning.”
In 1968 I obtained the first doctoral degree awarded by Oxford University in Modern Arabic Literature, and immediately afterwards, emigrated to the US to take up a newly opened position at the University of Pennsylvania.
JE: You’ve been retired for over a decade, what activities have you been involved in?
RA: I retired from my fulltime position in 2011, and indeed, as of April 2024, have moved into a retirement community in Haverford, a suburb of Philadelphia. Even after formal retirement, I continued teaching a world narratives class in Comparative Literature until 2016. Since then, I have served twice as President of the University of Pennsylvania’s faculty retirement association, and organizer of its Speakers Bureau that arranges for lectures all around the Delaware Valley.
However, almost all my attention has recently been focused on translation of modern Arabic fiction, and, in particular, the work of two authors: the Egyptian historical novelist, Reem Bassiouney, six of whose novels I’ve translated into English; and Ahmed Toufiq, the Minister of Religious Affairs in Morocco, for whom I’ve translated two novels (to add to the two already published) and the two volumes of his childhood autobiography, Father and What He Fathered (a quote from the Qur’an).
Thanks to email, I still hear regularly from former students and colleagues and learn about their activities, but I am no longer involved in research.
JE: You once told me that about the most difficult things for a translator, what are the biggest challenges you face when translating, and how do you overcome them?
RA: Translation is the act and art of “carrying” the output of one language and culture “across” (“trans,” Latin) a cultural divide and inserting the resulting text into a different language and culture. Theoreticians have identified three particular phases in the process: the source text and culture; the “intertext”; and the target text and its culture. Each of those phases brings with it its own problems and questions: the choice of author, text, and, in the case of literature, genre for the first; the search for the appropriate level of language-use and for a conducive publisher for the third; and, in between, the multiple issues associated with differences in structure, vocabulary, and style between the two languages and cultures involved and the adaptation of the one to the other.
It has been my good fortune to be acquainted with every author whose work(s) I have translated and to discuss many of the issues involved with them, although I hasten to add that, in every single case, they have left the final decisions to me. I have also participated into joint-translation projects with another translator, and indeed in other projects involving multiple different target languages and translators. The PROTA project (Project for the Translation of Arabic Literature), founded in 1980 by the Palestinian poet and critic, Salma Jayyusi (1925–2023), allowed for multiple translators to contribute to the publication of large anthologies of modern Arabic literary genres. As the project’s spokesman, I had the privilege of not only working with the translators (and translating myself), but also discussing issues connected with translation and publication with a wide variety of translators and scholars.
There is clearly a need for a whole new generation of translators from Arabic into English who will be able to take up the challenge reflected in that enormous variety of provenance, genre, topic, and style.
JE: Could you tell us about the status of Arabic literature in translation? There is a lack of Arabic literature in English translation, compared to other languages translated. What are the reasons?
RA: The data that I have seen on this topic tends to show that there is a wide variety of reception for Arabic literature in the cultures and publication environments of the Western world. I don’t know much about the situation regarding translations into Asian and Slavic languages such as Chinese, Japanese, Russian and Hindi, but for “Western” (i.e. European) languages, it seems clear that translations into French come out on top, closely followed by Italian and Spanish. German and English are significantly lower (at least, for MODERN Arabic literature). It is an open question as to why. Is it connected with patterns of imperialism and/or geographic contiguity. In my own experience, it is definitely connected with the commitment of specific scholars or groups of scholars to the need to translations, whether for academic purposes or for a more general reading-public.
In the specific case of translations of modern Arabic literature into English, there has been a significant increase in activity in the British environment, while the American scenario remains basically unchanged, or perhaps even worse. In Britain, for example, a new generation of translators (some of them fulltime professionals) and publication outlets has emerged, and the magazine Banipal (now closed, but its organizing structures still in place) has played a major role in bringing the riches of modern Arabic literature to a broader reading public. In the US, Interlink Publishing in Massachusetts, Lynne Rienner Publishers, and Syracuse University Press continue to foster the publication of series of translations, but several other publications have either closed down or greatly reduced their output.
On the broader scale, what now becomes clear is that the source culture for translations — from the Ocean to the Gulf in Nasser’s words — is now seen to be much wider and more varied than ever before. There is clearly a need for a whole new generation of translators from Arabic into English who will be able to take up the challenge reflected in that enormous variety of provenance, genre, topic, and style.
JE: Since we’ve started talking about translation, how does it feel being a translator, after having been a scholar of Arabic and comparative literature for four decades?
RA: In fact, the two functions were combined in my career from the very start. When I came to the US in 1968 and started teaching at the University of Pennsylvania, I taught basic language classes (like all Assistant Professors at that time), but was also asked to teach other classes as well. It was suggested that I prepare and offer (for the very first time) a course on modern Arabic literature in translation. Denys Johnson-Davies (1922– 2017) and Trevor LeGassick (1925–2022) had done yeoman work already, but, to put it mildly, there was hardly enough material for an entire semester-long course. I had already translated the famous works of Muhammad al-Muwayhlihi (1958–1930) as part of my Oxford dissertation, so I set to work to translate a sample of the different genres of modern Arabic literature. My meeting with Naguib Mahfouz (1911–2006) in Cairo in 1970 was the beginning of a wonderful personal relationship that lasted until his death and set me to translate many of his works into English.
At base however, it seems to me that all scholars working on some aspect of the Arabic-speaking world within one or other discipline are, of necessity, “translators,” in that they will (presumably) have to read, interpret, and utilize the findings of their readings in any number of texts in their own research and publication. The translation and publication of examples of modern Arabic literature is, of course, a particular and complex process (described above), but I have to say that I have never been able to separate the processes of research on modern Arabic literary genres (and especially the narrative genres) from the process of translation — as a primary mode in the goal of bringing it all to the attention of a reading public.
JE: What is a great translation for you?
RA: For me, a great translation is one where the translator has made a decision regarding Friedrich Scheiermacher’s great divide between “domesticating the text” and “foreignizing the reader.” The resulting translation will then be completed in a manner that will permit its reader to forget about the difficulties of trans-lingual and trans-cultural issues and to enjoy the text as though it were written originally in the target language.
The translations into English of the Bible, and especially the King James version, are good examples of what I am discussing, in that the English translation has over the centuries provided multiple examples of passages that have become staples of proverbial English discourse. Many other samples could be cited from other languages and cultures. At base, the necessary confrontation with difference should be as pleasing and natural as possible.
JB: What was the most rewarding translation project you’ve worked on, and why?
RA: My British origins allowed me to participate in the European-funded project, Dhākirat al-Mutawassit / Mémoires de la Mediterranée. A group of European translators from Arabic would select a text for translation into no less than six languages simultaneously, and invite the text’s author and their translator-colleagues to bring their translations and convene at the Escuela de traductores in Toledo, Spain, where the entire group would go through the text with the author, discuss issues of translation in general and particular, and then have the resulting translations published in their own publishing environment.
For this project, I was invited to work on translations of texts by May Telmissany and Ibrahim al-Koni. Unfortunately, the initial funding of the project was not renewed, but the translators involved have all continued to make major contributions to the translation of modern Arabic literary works into various European languages.
JB: If you could translate any book in the world, what would it be and why?
RA: It would be a work that combines my interests in Arabic literature and music, the “Oriental Tale” entitled “Antar” by the Russian diplomat and Professor of Oriental Studies, Osip Senkovsky (1800–1858). Antarah ibn Shaddad is, of course, the renowned pre-Islamic poet, whose life-experiences are revived (as Antar) in a multi-volume folk-narrative depicting his Herculean exploits. The Russian scholar, like so many others, was fascinated by Antoine Galland’s translation into French (1704–1717) of the original version of Alf Layla wa-layla (258 Nights).
Senkovsky takes the figure of Antar and creates his own “oriental tale,” set in the Syrian desert. The great Russian composer, Nicolai Rimsky-Korsakoff, was himself fascinated by these “oriental tales.” His second symphony, “Antar,” later designated a “symphonic suite,” was based on Senkovsky’s tale, and, twenty years later, Rimsky-Korsakoff wrote his most famous work, “Scheherazade,” its four movements each based on a tale from Alf Layla. While the music of the Antar symphony graphically illustrates the events of Senkovsky’s tale, I would love to be able to compare it to the textual original …
JB: You’ve taught at UPenn for over four decades, could you tell us about the status of Arabic literature in the US in the 1970s? What has changed?
RA: There is a divide that needs to be invoked here between the status of Arabic literature and its heritage in general and of modern Arabic literature in particular. The study of pre-modern writing in Arabic, including literature, obviously goes back several centuries, but I think it’s fair to say, in the main, that the focus was primarily on philology (finding, editing, and publishing the original text) and the quest for “information” in the text rather than on the inner workings of literary texts in their various genres.
As I indulge in retrospect, I get the impression that the beginnings of my own career as a researcher and teacher (the late 1960s) coincided with (or perhaps followed) the emergence of both more theoretically based approaches to the study of literature in general and of almost every aspect of the cultures and societies of the Arabic-speaking world (many of them based in newly emerging disciplines, especially the “social sciences”) and, post-World-War-II, an increased focus on the “modern” period (however that was to be defined).
In fact, I was, much to my surprise given my newly-arrived status, asked to chair the small panel of “literature scholars” that participated in a 1972 conference held at Stanford, at which the newly established (1967) Middle East Studies Association challenged itself to define what the “disciplines” involved in the field were and how they chose to define themselves, their topics and approaches. The resulting volume, The Study of the Middle East (ed. Leonard Binder) was published in 1976. Among the issues to which we were asked to respond was what were the theoretical principles involved in the “discipline” of literature studies.
Since those “early days” for me, linkages to the nations of the Arabic-speaking world have increased exponentially, research in a whole variety of disciplines and regions has expanded, and theoretical bases have become a requirement for research. One consequence of that has been the increasing integration of research on the regions and language-cultures involved into the focus and curricula of departments and centers at universities and colleges. These same trends have also seen a complete shift in comparative emphasis from a focus on the pre-modern centuries of heritage and culture to a predominant focus on the contemporary world and its more immediate precedents.
JB: You wrote some seminal books that have contributed to the theorization of Arabic literary studies. Could you talk about this?
RA: My first published book was, as is often the case, an updated version of my Oxford doctoral dissertation, devoted to the Egyptian author, Muhammad al-Muwaylihi and his family. Initially published in microfiche format in 1974 (SUNY Press), it has subsequently been published in multiple forms (most recently by the Library of Arabic Literature series, NYU Press, 2015).
My study of the Arabic novel, initially a series of lectures given at the University of Manchester in 1978 and then published twice (1982, 1995), reflects the trends that I have identified above, in that I chose to study a single literary genre from theoretical, critical, and historical perspectives, finishing the work with a series of analyses of specific novels, including in each edition a final study of a “recent” author (at the time of publication): in 1982 Abd al-Rahman Munif (1933–2004) and in 1995, Ibrahim al-Koni.
It is, I believe, a reflection of some of the trends noted above that I have declined requests to produce a third edition of the book. The Arabic novel tradition has now expanded and experimented, in terms of regions, styles, topics, and critical and theoretical approaches, to the extent that it is, at least in my view, impossible to consider writing a single volume work that can do justice to the richness of the genre in its manifestations throughout the Arabic-speaking world. Indeed, many examples of region-specific, topic-specific, and theory-specific studies are now available, devoted to multiple aspects of a narrative genre that demands nothing less. (In a side-comment, I can point out that I have also penned a number of studies of the short-story genre and even one on the novella, but they have been in article form.)
It was my colleagues at Cambridge University Press who, as part of my involvement in the planning and implementation of the Cambridge History of Arabic Literature project (six volumes), wondered as to why there was no single-volume study of Arabic literature to place alongside works on other literary traditions. I took up the challenge, and The Arabic Literary Heritage was published in 1998, with an abbreviated version, Introduction to Arabic Literature, published in 2000. In this work also, I chose to adopt a format that focused on genres rather than historical periods and divides (the most notorious of which in many previous studies of the literary heritage had been the so-called “Age of Decadence”). After an initial chapter in which I discussed the “parameters” of the study (echoes of the 1972 Stanford Conference!), I devoted individual chapters to poetry, belleslettrist prose, drama, and criticism.
I am aware, of course, that literary traditions do not stand still and that much has happened in the field of Arabic literature and its study since the early years of the 21st century, when my study was published, but perhaps here too the possibility of “updating” the chapters of this volume would now almost certainly involve more than a simple addition of a few new names and works.
In addition to these works in book form, it has been my immense privilege to publish a large number of articles and book-reviews, and also to serve as co-editor of both the Journal of Arabic Literature and what was initially Edebiyat (a direct by-product of discussions at the Stanford conference mentioned above) and later joined itself to the journal Middle Eastern Literatures. It has thus been a pleasure to get to know and work with so many wonderful colleagues in the field of Arabic literature studies.
